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July 22, 2008
MBA Express

NEWS THIS WEEK'S TOP STORY

Yoga Makes Headway in Business Schools

Clubs and classes offer stretching, exercise, meditation, and stress relief for high-pressure MBAs

MORE TOP STORIES

UNDERGRADUATE NEWS
Five Non-Biz Classes for Business Majors
Many valuable business skills are taught outside of business classes. Here are five courses any undergrad business major should take

IN DEPTH
The College Credit-Card Hustle
How universities and alumni associations profit by marketing undergrads to financial giants--like Bank of America

VIDEO VIEWS
Dartmouth, a More Intimate B-School
Paul Danos, dean of Dartmouth's Amos Tuck School of Business, discusses his plans to improve the school's offerings. Tuck plans to add more faculty to teach smaller-scale seminars

LIVE CHAT
GMAT Scandal Questions
With Scoretop.com subscribers concerned about a cheating probe, Peg Jöbst of the Graduate Management Admissions Council chats live on July 23

MBA INSIDER: RECRUITER Q&A
Getting In at Ernst & Young
The Big Four auditing firm is one of the top employers of students and MBAs. Two of the company's recruiters talk about their MBA hiring program

B-SCHOOL FORUMS

Visit BW Online's interactive forums for wide-ranging discussions about management education. Search through over 1,359,000 posts for topics that interest you. Join in today! Here are a few samples of recent messages:

Getting into B-School: Age vs. Work Experience

From: basketball
To: ALL

I know that to some extent there is a bias to younger applicants these days, but when people say that, are they referring to age in terms of how old you are or number of years of work experience? i.e. given all else equal, would someone who is 25 with 4 years of experience have a marginal benefit over someone who is 25 with 3 years of experience? Or would the 25 year old with 4 years of experience be on equal footing with a 26 year old with 4 years of experience?

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From: DanInVA
To: basketball

That is too small of a detail to worry about. A major difference would be a 25 year old with 4 years of work experience versus a 28-30 year old with 4 years of experience.

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From: basketball
To: DanInVA

True... I guess in that case its pretty obvious that the 25 year old with 4 years WE has the leg up on the 28-30 year old because the 28-30 year old either got left back many years / sat around doing nothing for a few years, unless the 28-30 year old has grad degrees or something, that's a different story.

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From: VictoryMBA
To: basketball

What about a 25 year old with 2.5 years of WE (me)?

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From: basketball
To: VictoryMBA

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it would come down to why 2.5 years? What happened to the extra 0.5 year? i.e. were you traveling the world or sitting around?

Sometimes it just comes down to some people starting school earlier or later and in those cases it shouldn't make a difference.

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From: rio_grande
To: basketball

I was chatting with Senior Associate Director at Wharton recently and she was talking about the recent trend towards younger applicants (even though Wharton's average remains at 6 yrs W/E). She said that the reason for why more and more young applicants apply and are accepted into the top schools is because the younger professionals are given more and more responsibility and interesting/difficult projects at work than ever before. Therefore, it is not surprising to see such trend in application process.

To answer your question, I could give you a very generic answer that every adcom is repeating all the time: it's not about the quantity of W/E, it's about quality. But I think u don't want to hear this stuff anymore. So I'll say this: assuming W/E is the same between two individuals, I'd take 25 yr old over 26 yr old. I think it's always impressive when a person achieves something in a shorter period of time than someone else does. As to same age case, the person with more experience wins it, again assuming similar experience. Although it is expected that experience of the guy with 4 years is richer and thus the person can speak more about it. The idea is the same, somewhere along the way that person either skipped a year or finished school faster than a regular kid would, or maybe studied in a different country with a shorter program, in which case this person brings unique perspective. The latter makes the candidates different in other areas than just W/E.

Hope this helps.

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Getting into B-School: Rec from Same Level Co-Worker OK?

From: VictoryMBA
To: All

Is it ok to get a letter of recommendation from a co-worker who has essentially the same job as you do? We work together everyday, she is my team mate, she knows my work well, knows my potential, but she is not my superior. Is that ok?

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From: straightshooter
To: VictoryMBA

I would make sure that you also got a rec letter from a superior, as well as double check with the school that it is acceptable. There should be an admissions person willing to listen to your question and give advice. Personally, I think while the letter might lack some perspective on your ability to develop into a good manager/post-MBA professional, if that person is the most acquainted with your strengths/weaknesses, it could be an excellent letter. Some schools allow an optional/third letter... you should consider including your co-worker's letter as one.

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From: VictoryMBA
To: thomasfree

I really only have one direct supervisor that would really know my potential (we work together everyday). I have other higher ups (ie: my bosses boss) that I occasionally work with, and they get direct reports about me, but never on that day to day grind it out level. I just don't see how I could ask one person to write 6 letters of rec.

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From: riverripper
To: VictoryMBA

Most schools require two recommendations anyways. I would be weary of using a peer. A mentor maybe but not a peer.

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From: NolaSkier
To: riverripper

Vicotry,

Send me a template and I will submit one for you.

IMO using a peer is a bad idea.

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From: DanInVA
To: VictoryMBA

Do you have any strong leadership ties to extracurricular activities? You could also use someone above you at a volunteer organization or something similar, if you have quality experiences there.

B-SCHOOL BLOGS

View over 4,500 blogs in our MBA Blogs community today! Share your journey, meet new friends, and expand your network. Connect with MBA students, applicants and alumni from Columbia, Kellogg, Notre Dame, and more! Become a blogger today! Here's an excerpt:

Tshinghua Soundings: Insights from MBAs in China
By Tsinghua MBAs

Comments: 0 Stars: 0

I wanted to share with you some of the findings of a business case writing project I took part in this last spring semester. Tsinghua University has an abundance of influence and connections and we were able to land a large state owned enterprise (SOE) as the focus of our case. Once they agreed to be the subject of our case they allowed us full access to several top executives and managers.

What we ended up writing about was pretty interesting and I'll give you the low-down so you won't have to wait for the case to come out. Our task was to examine the company from an Organizational Behavior/HR perspective. Since this was an SOE whose majority of operations were outside of China we wanted to focus on some of their overseas projects. So much has been written about companies coming to China and having to localize. Instead, we wanted to look at a Chinese company as it had to itself go to a foreign country and localize.

Are You Ready?

One of the broad lessons that the final case deals with is about the level of preparation and readiness that the Chinese employees needed before they set off on a project. By comparison, we found that they generally needed much less planning and preparation than we in the West would deem necessary. It wasn't so much that they were beginning things with inadequate forethought, rather, it was as if they factored in the point that the plan was going to need adjusting anyway. So, instead of over-planning now they were comfortable with making changes to a plan (or coming up with one to begin with) when the need presents itself. In a nutshell they were more comfortable with less preparation.

One specific example from the case is about the amount of training that managers get previous to being sent to an overseas posting. Pretty much every manager that was going overseas got exactly zero extra training. We then asked why there wasn't a more robust training program regarding language or culture. We were told that they already had enough managerial and leadership skills, or else they wouldn't have been chosen. Also, with a solid foundation of experience and decision making they would be able to handle the unforeseen when it happened. And I must say, after much digging we didn't find any evidence to prove them wrong; no disasters, no meltdowns, nothing to say that their approach was off base.

This is a profound insight if you have spent any time here in Asia, particularly in China. I'll speak for myself and say that I've learnt this one the hard way. So many times I've felt that there has been little or no planning, no notice, or just a plain need-to-know basis in many things around me from work, and now school, to even personal interactions. However, if you take this premise and generalize, and forgive me for doing so, then so many things make sense. The internal measuring stick, that innate, unspoken point inside which gives you that intuition that says "ready" is in a different place for me as it is for those local to my host country. Man, does that explain a lot of things...

FOR THE FULL VERSION

WORDS OF WISDOM

MBAs Answer: "Knowing what you know now, would you choose to get an MBA again?"
-------------------------------------------

I would do it all over again without hesitation. It challenged me in ways I never anticipated and it raised my standards and my work ethic to a level I did not know existed. I expect far more out of myself now than I ever did. Oh yeah, it was also a total blast.
-Dartmouth (Tuck) '97; Internet Advertising Sales

I would most definitely choose to earn an MBA again. The people I met at business school will be a personal and professional asset for many years to come. I'm certain I would not have met such outstanding people had I not chosen to earn an MBA.
-University of Chicago '99; Investment Banking

I would absolutely choose it again for the training and perspective it has provided. But I will say that it did not help me figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up. An MBA can only make that decision-making worse because it can expose you to more possibilities. I went through three jobs after business school before I finally settled into something that I enjoy and is challenging. The best advice I have is get the degree but don't expect it to give you answers about you or your life.
-Stanford '92; Director of MBA Admissions/Higher Education

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B-School Insider

Dear Reader:

It appears students at some B-schools may actually be finding time to relax (during the school year)... Imagine that! This week's lead story, "Yoga Makes Headway in Business Schools," discusses how schools such as the University of Chicago offer stretching, exercise, meditation, and stress relief for the high-pressure MBA.

Also this week, we take a look at the valuable business skills taught outside of business classes. In this week's article "Five Non-Biz Classes for Business Majors," read about the suggested courses any undergrad business major should take. In addition, "The College Credit-Card Hustle" looks at how universities and alumni associations profit by marketing undergrads to financial giants -- like Bank of America.

Until next week,
Phil Mintz
B-Schools Channel Editor

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Tools & Features

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